![Christian Picciolini](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/e816b77c-e1da-4d10-8522-e8a59189f61d/42206391435_885ffc23fb_o.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=450&mono=4b7780&q=80&rect=0%2C383%2C3500%2C1969&w=800)
Sometimes equality—to the people who have control—seems like oppression.
Show Notes
Christian Picciolini went to his first white supremacist skinhead meeting at age 14. A lonely and bullied child, he was quickly swept into the movement and eventually became a leader. In this candid conversation, he speaks with journalist Matt Thompson about why he decided to leave the skinhead movement and turn his life around. Picciolini now helps people disengage from hate groups through an organization he leads, Free Radicals Project. Picciolini is the author of "White American Youth: My Descent into America’s Most Violent Hate Movement." His interviewer, Matt Thompson, is executive editor of The Atlantic.
Explore
Related episodes
![Jelani Cobb 2018](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/5d47b896-2c57-43b0-8b2d-d2560d8fa1af/43022977772_1442ec9932_o.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&mono=8a5f4e&q=80&rect=2240%2C0%2C4480%2C4480&w=400)
![Jelani Cobb 2018](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/5d47b896-2c57-43b0-8b2d-d2560d8fa1af/43022977772_1442ec9932_o.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&q=80&rect=2240%2C0%2C4480%2C4480&w=400)
Today race is a more prominent and intransigent problem than ever.
![Wajahat Ali 2018](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/78ff8130-df0b-4f45-98bb-b202f3ec0020/29176486058_cb80de5a39_o.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&mono=4b7780&q=80&rect=0%2C0%2C2000%2C2000&w=400)
![Wajahat Ali 2018](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/78ff8130-df0b-4f45-98bb-b202f3ec0020/29176486058_cb80de5a39_o.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&q=80&rect=0%2C0%2C2000%2C2000&w=400)
How do the events of today compare to other periods of extremism in America?
![43061046552 0fb90c2b36 H](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/997e98ec-0572-4fe6-94ee-10362d15be48/43061046552_0fb90c2b36_h.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&mono=b78045&q=80&rect=0%2C0%2C1067%2C1066&w=400)
![43061046552 0fb90c2b36 H](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/997e98ec-0572-4fe6-94ee-10362d15be48/43061046552_0fb90c2b36_h.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&q=80&rect=0%2C0%2C1067%2C1066&w=400)
Former white supremacist Christian Picciolini now dedicates his life to helping others counter hate.
![35531450236 211e091680 H](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/4379ee2d-47f1-48c1-a622-79bf85a5e7f3/35531450236_211e091680_h.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&mono=0a7c51&q=80&rect=65%2C2%2C1066%2C1066&w=400)
![35531450236 211e091680 H](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/4379ee2d-47f1-48c1-a622-79bf85a5e7f3/35531450236_211e091680_h.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&q=80&rect=65%2C2%2C1066%2C1066&w=400)
How far have we come toward racial equality since the civil rights era? What would Dr. King think?
![7476911050 Def9f9aec7 B](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/61be3431-dfec-4b2f-8c99-eca62400a3fd/7476911050_def9f9aec7_b.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&mono=7d247d&q=80&rect=131%2C0%2C680%2C679&w=400)
![7476911050 Def9f9aec7 B](https://aspenideasfestival.imgix.net/61be3431-dfec-4b2f-8c99-eca62400a3fd/7476911050_def9f9aec7_b.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&fit=min&fm=jpg&h=400&q=80&rect=131%2C0%2C680%2C679&w=400)
How does "color blindness" affect social policy and racial oppression?